Beata Sulska explains questions concerning teachers’ pay and dismissals in Bolesławiec in a conversation with Grażyna Hanaf, and discusses the need to merge schools. She also addresses the issue of class sizes in the city.

Grażyna Hanaf: Is it true that teachers are a burden on the budget of the municipal gmina?

Beata Sulska: Of course, this cannot be treated as a burden. Teachers, like every employee, receive remuneration. In this case, these are salaries set according to the Ministry of Education’s pay scale, which we do not debate—we have to comply with it.

How much does a teacher earn in Bolesławiec?

A certified teacher earns PLN 5,000 gross. Of the 319 teachers in the municipal gmina, 54%—172 teachers—are certified teachers. On average, all teachers earn approximately PLN 3,500 gross.

So what is the problem with paying teachers’ salaries? Dziennik Gazeta Prawna wrote: “Local governments are breaking successive records in subsidizing schools and preschools; gminas cannot carry out necessary investments because education expenditure increases every year.”

That is correct: the ministry sets the rates, and local governments employing teachers must comply with them.

So it is not the employer—the local government—that sets the rates for employees?

That is right. Teachers are employed under the Teachers’ Charter. The state sets the rates: PLN 5,000 gross for a certified teacher, PLN 3,913 gross for an appointed teacher, and PLN 3,017 gross for a contract teacher. From the local government’s point of view, we are only obliged to comply with the applicable rates and increases. This year, the increases amount to 3.8%.

Isn’t this situation pathological? Doesn’t it create resentment toward teachers as a professional group?

Local governments expect the government to support teachers’ salaries; they want pay increases to be accompanied by an increase in the government subsidy. Local governments need relief, not tighter belts. However, I believe it is wrong to judge teachers as receiving these salaries regardless of the quality of their work or their motivation.

If we assumed the utopian situation that the local government had complete influence over how much it paid teachers, would they receive the national minimum wage?

I would not reduce teachers’ rates; we could discuss eliminating allowances. I do not think there would be any talk of cuts.

Could the local government afford such high salaries without the subsidy?

No, without the state subsidy, the local government would not be able to maintain education at a good level.

So how much do you add to those PLN 5,000?

The money is provided per pupil, not per teacher. And we cannot calculate how much a teacher receives from the government and how much from the local government, because the subsidy also goes toward maintaining the entire school.

But can you admit that the move to merge schools is intended to reduce teacher employment and save money in the budget?

Rather, it is intended to adjust the number of schools to the number of pupils. The merger of the primary school and the lower-secondary school—MSZ No. 3, in 2011—resulted from the declining number of pupils. Over two years, in 2010/11, we lost approximately 480 pupils—the equivalent of one school. This year, we created three fewer first-grade classes than last year. This entails dismissals of teachers.

How many teachers from the merged schools lost their jobs?

Nine full-time positions were eliminated, and teachers of physical education, music, history, library science, Polish, and German lost their jobs.

Which teachers should be most afraid of dismissal—the youngest or the oldest?

No one can be certain. A reduction in hours may affect anyone. These are difficult personnel decisions made by head teachers, and initially they try to find such teachers hours at other schools. In 2011, 27 teachers lost their jobs in Bolesławiec; in 2012, 14 did. And there will be reductions in subsequent years.

And how do these staffing measures affect pupils’ comfort at school? Our user writes: “Utopia: effective learning, individualized instruction, groups of 15. Facts: the teacher fighting to maintain order in class, lack of authority, fear of the head teacher—the head teacher afraid of parents and the local government—and children ‘only’ 30… Sad.”

It is not that bad; there are 28 pupils per class on average. In the first grades, we do not have more than 30 pupils. At Municipal Lower-Secondary School No. 3, there are classes of 33 pupils, but also classes of 20.

Does the high number of pupils in a class result from the small number of teachers? If there were an additional teacher, a class of 33 could be split into classes of 15–18..

I do not remember classes as small as 15 pupils in the history of the school.

But wouldn’t that be a bad thing?

It would not be bad, but the question is: what are we aiming for? It is sad that your reader sees a class as an unhappy collection of people.

He sees that it is difficult for a teacher to control 30 people in a class.

It is fortunate that you are speaking with someone who worked at a school for 18 years. I taught classes of 36 pupils. Difficulties with discipline and maintaining order in class are deeply connected with the teacher’s predispositions.

So everything depends only on the teacher?

To a large extent. It depends on their teaching practice, the standards they set for themselves, and the clear goals toward which the entire team—not just the teacher—is working.

Will the establishment of a new school by the Piarist Fathers in Bolesławiec solve the problems of dismissed teachers, or will it be their competition?

The Piarists assume that they will recruit pupils not only from the gmina but also from neighboring counties; I do not know how successful they will be. It will create an opportunity for new jobs for teachers in Bolesławiec. And this school will not burden the gmina budget in any way, because the religious order will be the founding and financing body.

How likely is it that this school will be established?

The Piarist order has yet to make a decision. But everything indicates that from September 2013, primary- and lower-secondary-school classes will be established in the building on Bankowa Street, that is, at Primary School No. 2. The Fathers will then need teachers from Bolesławiec. Unfortunately, there will be no other vacancies for teachers.

(information: G. H.)