What changes do women need, and which political group works better in practice as a platform for women? Grażyna Hanaf asks her interviewees: Kinga Gęsicka-Biały of Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives and Aleksandra Krzeszewska of the Civic Coalition.

Grażyna Hanaf: Good morning, everyone. Today I am joined by Aleksandra Krzeszewska of the Civic Coalition, a resident of Legnica, and Kinga Gęsicka-Biały, a resident of Bolesławiec, from Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives. Ms Aleksandra, what do young women want in politics?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I think that above all they would like respect and the restoration of dignity for women. I have the impression that women’s rights have recently been voiced in the streets of all Polish cities, and I think this is the number-one issue when it comes to mobilizing women and getting them to go out and vote, because the election results will essentially be in women’s hands. It depends on women whether there will be a place for Confederation in the Sejm, and it depends on women whether Law and Justice or the Civic Coalition wins these elections.

Grażyna Hanaf: What about Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives, Ms Kinga? Wouldn’t you like to have more power? In politics, in addition to dignity.

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): Seventy-two percent of politicians in the Sejm are primarily men, and I would like women who go to the polls to have someone to vote for and to be able to vote for women.

Grażyna Hanaf: All right, then, Ms Aleksandra, if people are to vote for you, which women are you reaching out to? Men? Which voters, in general?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I think everyone. That is what an election campaign is about, at least in my view. I am conducting my campaign at 150% of my capacity. Every day I visit new towns; every day I visit places and remain active in electoral district no. 1, the Legnica–Jelenia Góra district, which runs toward the German border and the Czech border, all the way to.

Grażyna Hanaf: Ms Aleksandra, where have you been recently? And what made the greatest impression on you when meeting people?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I am not flattering you, but it was Bolesławiec this morning, and there is such positive energy among the people here. I was genuinely very positively surprised, because I have been to various places and, of course, I also meet and talk to different voters, so it does not surprise me when someone refuses to take a Civic Coalition leaflet. But the formula and manner in which people are currently talking can be somewhat surprising. I have the impression that society is completely divided. Of course, I hope that everything will change after these elections. It will not change at the snap of a finger, naturally, but I hope that we will simply be able to speak to one another in a normal, civilized way. And I think the positive surprise was the enormous support. I have the impression that the entire Coalition and individual lists could be endowed with the support I heard in Bolesławiec today.

Grażyna Hanaf: We are very pleased. Ms Kinga, do you have the same impression regarding Bolesławiec? Is it more difficult for a woman from Bolesławiec?

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): It is not. Bolesławiec is an open city. I have not had any unpleasant situations with voters on the street. I talk to people. My campaign is generally very, very turnout-oriented, and I mainly talk to women because I persuade them that there are more of us, that women have a voice in these elections, and that we will decide what kind of Poland we will have after October 15....

Grażyna Hanaf: But let me interrupt here. Today, at the presentation of candidates from the Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives list at 9:15, you were not there; there were only men. Well, one woman was there and spoke at the very end, but men alone spoke about important matters. How do you comment on that?

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): I called the local structures, and of course they apologized because of what happened. They said it was a major misunderstanding that I had not been invited there. I was disgusted by the fact, because I am running a campaign and should have been at that debate. Not the debate—the presentation.

Grażyna Hanaf: Do you think something like that would happen in the Civic Coalition? Have you ever been left out?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I do not know about being left out. I have the impression that we cooperate in that way. Of course, I know the various claims that people actually compete most fiercely with their own list, but I have the impression that there really is strength when we are all together, because we are truly fighting for something great.

Grażyna Hanaf: So, Ms Kinga, do you feel supported by the Nonpartisan representatives? To what extent?

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): I feel supported by people who are in the Nonpartisan group, but perhaps that support is not entirely there during this campaign. It is my first campaign, after all, so I have no comparison. I know, for example, what it is like for my female colleagues in Poland from different lists and different groups, and things happen where women are left out. Such things do happen, unfortunately.

Grażyna Hanaf: Exactly, Ms Aleksandra, do you trust Mr Tusk to really support women? When it comes to legal abortion?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I believe so. The Civic Coalition is going into the election with demands following a victory; these are set out in the program “100 specifics for the first 100 days of government,” and those specifics include demands directly concerning protection. Although I can already say boldly that defending women’s rights is at stake, because we are at such a critical point regarding women’s rights that this is now a matter of defense, not protection. Legal abortion, access to emergency contraception, free access to prenatal tests, and free, safe anesthesia during childbirth—these are important matters, and I hope and believe they will not be overlooked.

Grażyna Hanaf: But is that belief or certainty? Because we know that Donald Tusk has only very recently become convinced about women.

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I believe it, because I believe there are women there who will make sure of it, and I know they are genuinely strong women who, if they say something will happen, do not say it merely to talk about it, pass under the cover of such a program, and then forget about it. I know these are specific commitments that will be implemented.

Grażyna Hanaf: Well, Ms Kinga, the word “make sure” is key in your case, because you probably have to keep a close watch on the men in the Nonpartisan group. From what we know, you support legal abortion; how do you see the possibility of keeping the Nonpartisan men in check? I spoke today with Mr Barczyk, and he said he was drawn to an abortion compromise, but is not open to legal abortion. He is your colleague from Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives.

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): In matters of personal beliefs, that is how it is written—or rather, how it is elegantly described: Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives have their own worldview and so on. Personally, I believe abortion is a human right, and there are no compromises here. None.

Grażyna Hanaf: But I am asking how you will keep your colleagues in check.

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): How will I keep my colleagues in check? I cannot control my colleagues, but I will make sure that they change their minds. Three or four years ago, before the entire pseudo-Constitutional Tribunal ruling, I myself did not know exactly where I stood, and I often mention the fact that I had a friend who had an abortion, and I looked at it strangely and so on. But people simply develop and learn, and we can learn a great deal from our female friends and acquaintances. I think I have a lot of work to do on this issue when it comes to Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives, but it can be done, because my female colleagues, the leaders of this group, speak very wisely. And I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Grażyna Hanaf: And Ms Aleksandra, did you take part in the Women’s Strikes?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): I did. I did not miss a single one that took place in my hometown. There were strikes as early as 2016; at that time I was studying in Wrocław, so I took part in them in Wrocław and did not miss a single one.

Grażyna Hanaf: So we have two activists here; let me ask again. Ms Kinga, what drew you into politics, despite the fact that this is Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives? What made you decide it was worth joining the list?

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS): Precisely so that women’s voices would be heard clearly in politics. I know I have the power of a woman’s voice, so I decided to run in these elections.

Grażyna Hanaf: And Ms Aleksandra, what was it for you? You are a councillor, the youngest in Legnica, and you seem to be building your career around politics. But was there a moment when you said “yes”? Joining a list and engaging in politics are probably different matters.

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO): Above all, when I received the offer to run, I looked through the list of members of parliament currently sitting in the Sejm. There is no representation there of people under 30. I look at what is happening in the news—programs that run in parallel, I mean Fakty and Wiadomości. Everything after 7 p.m. We receive all the news. As I said earlier, society is divided and unable to talk to one another normally. Local-government issues, which I encounter every day, are a very long subject, above all, but they concern the subordination of local government. In general, I believe local government should be developed in the form of self-government—that is, autonomy and the ability of the local community to decide about its most urgent needs. Unfortunately, I am now observing something during this election campaign that is a widespread phenomenon: members of parliament from the ruling party arrive and hand out plaques for heritage protection, road renovations, and every possible theoretical need of local government. These are investment needs, all right, but there are many current expenses for which we have no money. Law and Justice has stripped local governments of their resources.

Grażyna Hanaf
Ms Aleksandra, I have to ask: why not Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives, but the Coalition?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO)
The Coalition is closest to me. We represent similar values and similar views, and I would not want to deceive either my voters or myself. It is the closest to me, and I can endorse the values represented by the Coalition.

Grażyna Hanaf
And Ms Kinga, how would you encourage women, young women, to go to the polls?

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS)
Every one of us has a vote, and every vote counts in these elections. Each of us has an influence on what will happen after October 15, because there are simply more of us. It is that simple.

Grażyna Hanaf
And Ms Aleksandra, how do you encourage voters and young women on the street? Do they approach you at all? How do you encourage them, if they do approach you?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO)
Above all, like Ms Kinga, I talk about the fact that there are more of us, but I also talk about the fact that we ourselves have to decide about ourselves. Not men in suits in Warsaw, on Wiejska Street, because the future of this country will depend on us. When we choose politicians who will write the law for four years and speak and talk on our behalf about matters that directly concern us, it is simply unfair; we ourselves have to make the decision.

Grażyna Hanaf
I think the dialogue here would work wonderfully, despite the possibly different political options. Thank you very much for this interview, and I encourage everyone—women and men—to vote.

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS)
Could I say something else?

Grażyna Hanaf
Please do, Ms Kinga.

KInga Gęsicka-Biały (BS)
The All-Poland Women’s Strike has launched the “Vote for Abortion” campaign, dedicated to young people aged 18 to 39 who do not know whom to vote for but took part in the protests. It is a continuation of our protest, in a sense: we go and vote for abortion. Therefore, I encourage everyone to visit www.glosujzaaborcja.pl, to check all the male and female candidates. Are they glowing green? Those who glow green can represent us.

Grażyna Hanaf
Are you glowing green too, like Ms Kinga?

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO)
Unfortunately, I have not visited the website yet; I hope I am glowing green. I would like to glow green, and I endorse it.

Grażyna Hanaf
Wonderful? So you see, we are green and positive, and we are all going to the polls. Thank you once again; thank you, Ms Aleksandra; thank you, Ms Kinga; thank you, everyone.

Aleksandra Krzeszewska (KO)
Thank you very much, and I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed for Ms Kinga. Good luck.

Kinga Gęsicka-Biały (BS)

Many thanks to you too. Best wishes.