Kinga Gęsicka-Biały is an activist whose social work began with the Women’s Strikes in Bolesławiec. Kinga worked as a volunteer with the “Mothers at the Border” group during the refugee crisis on the Polish-Belarusian border in November 2021. In this year’s Sejm elections, she decided to run on the list of Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives, in 13th place.
Grażyna Hanaf: – Good morning, everyone. After a longer break at the end of summer, today we have Ms Kinga Gęsicka-Biały and the film The Green Border, from which we will watch a fragment. Ms Kinga? Do you feel like a pig after leaving a screening of Agnieszka Holland’s “The Green Border”?
Kinga Gęsicka-Biały: – As I wrote on my Facebook profile, that evening I became a pig along with other pigs, friends whom I met at the cinema and who, together with me, supported people in the refugee crisis. And I think that, at this point, I can say that we did that job well as citizens.
Because you were at the Belarusian border with “Mothers at the Border.” When exactly did what is shown in “The Green Border” happen? What were your impressions after watching the film and recalling that time?
Today I spoke about this with my friend Marzanna, whom I warmly greet, from the “Mothers at the Border” project. And I have to say that the film did not really surprise me. There were some typical scenes. One scene did surprise me, seemingly banal, when a mother gave her daughter water to drink from the leaves of a coniferous tree. Apart from that, the other things did not surprise me, because I was there and I saw the army. We protested; we went there as mothers to the border to protest against what was happening there and the inhumane way the border guards were behaving. It was a time when I was already following what was happening there on an ongoing basis through my activist friends, both women and men, and volunteers. But we arrived when there was already a zone that could not be entered. And personally, when I learned that I could stay there and help, I wanted to stay and help, but it ended with me personally preparing aid packages that went to people entering that forest and helping refugees there.
You did not enter the forest?
No. I did not enter because I saw… I don’t know. The image of those used thermal blankets. Simply the atmosphere in Hajnówka during that protest, those military vehicles.
Were you afraid?
I was afraid that—I don’t know—that they might do something to me. That I would not return home. That I would not return to my children.
Because you have children of your own. Tell me, do you also believe that the uniform was sullied by this film? That Holland is someone who opposes, I don’t know, the dignity of the uniform?
I do not. Because she showed it from every possible perspective. She showed it from the refugee’s perspective. From the activist’s perspective, that is, the perspective of people who helped at the border. From the perspective of the border guards themselves, which is what I saw and felt from my perspective as an activist who… We immediately knew that if we entered that forbidden zone, it could end in anything. And there was this anger, this complete helplessness. Such terrible, terrible feelings. But in this film, it seems to me personally, she actually warmed the image of the border guards, because they have feelings too. And just as the main character from the Border Guard wanted to fulfill his duties and wanted to remain on good terms with his superiors, in the end he turns out to be very human. I think she portrayed them in a very positive light, showing that they are people too.
We recommend The Green Border. The film is still showing at the cinema in Bolesławiec. We also know that it will be screened in the large auditorium in October. All right, then, from activist to Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives. Who brought you onto the Nonpartisan list? Who came and said: Ms Kinga, would you like to run?
I came myself.
And whom did you come to, then?
I approached Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives with a proposal that I would like to support their electoral committee’s list. And that is how it got started.
And why the Nonpartisan representatives? Because you were—yes, you are number thirteen, we remember that—you were an activist more closely associated with Szymon Hołownia. Why the Nonpartisan representatives? Any personal, I don’t know, sympathies? What persuaded you? In a few words.
While working with the Women’s Strike, I found myself in something of a bind, because the nationwide Women’s Strike officially does not support the Third Way, since the demands concerning women’s rights diverge in some respects. I understand that there does not have to be party discipline on issues of worldview, but there can be no compromise.
I understand, no referendum. And why not the Civic Coalition, since Tusk says openly that he is very open to legal abortion and the matter would be clear there?
I do not see myself in the Civic Coalition.
But not, for example, the Bolesławiec Civic Coalition, or the Civic Coalition generally?
Generally, I do not want to be associated with any political party in our country. I am not ready for that…
You realize that the Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives had to become a political party in order to take part in the elections?
Yes, because that is how electoral law is structured, and a so-called working party had to be created. Unfortunately, to change something, that simply had to be done.
We also know that the Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives want to change electoral law, if they are able to decide anything at all, and want to create an opportunity for social associations to have an open path to parliament. And how do you see yourself among the Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives? Which area would you like to work on? What would you like to do among the local government representatives as Kinga Gęsicka-Biały, the activist?
First of all, to make sure that women’s and human rights, which are being routinely violated in our country at the moment, are not pushed into the background. It is easy to drag such issues out during an election campaign, as various other parties do, but at the end of the day things remain as they are now: we are discriminated against.
All right. The local government representatives include women in their program. Ms Urszula Krawczyk, who is president of the Foundation of the Academy of Effective Women, says this clearly, but in her statements she speaks about stages in women’s lives such as pregnancy and menopause, and about protection and gynecological and psychological care for women. Does the phrase “legal abortion” appear there at all? Do you hear that from your colleagues?
As a matter of fact, yesterday I watched a women’s debate, and Ms Krawczyk said there that she supports legal abortion up to the 12th week. So I follow the leaders of this movement and pay close attention to what they say.
Then thank you for that information. We did not know that. All right, so will you stand guard over whether the local government representatives really fulfill their demands? And now, quite finally: are you the president’s favorite?
You would have to ask the president.
That is the opinion… You would have to ask the president? And do you feel particularly liked by him? The president, of course, meaning Piotr Roman, not President Duda.
I think it is mutual affection. Somehow, I don’t know. I like going to see him, talking to him, listening to his perspective, and expressing my own opinion on certain matters.
And how do you feel about the fact that, as an activist, someone associated with the Women’s Strike, shouting “eight stars for PiS,” and as someone rather, let’s say, emotional, how do you feel among the local government representatives, among the Nonpartisan Local Government Representatives? They are generally associated with being something of a PiS support base.
Someone once said that politics is a higher level of activism. And I have to say that it is difficult for me to learn such restraint. Because, as you pointed out, I am very emotional and can be explosive. When it comes to the opinions I hold, I often defend them and have arguments to support them. But I am open-minded and learning. A person learns throughout their whole life.
So one can talk to you without being treated, for example, as a bitter enemy whom you shout at? One can chat with you over coffee?
I think so. I like talking; I love people in general. I could talk and talk and talk.
Then we invite you. As far as I know, you said that your way of conducting this campaign would be walking around and talking to people. So we invite you: when you see Ms Kinga Gęsicka-Biały, number thirteen on the Nonpartisan list, you can come over and talk. I can also confirm that it is very pleasant to talk with Ms Kinga. In that case, thank you very much for the interview, and everyone, let’s go vote, shall we?
Thank you very much, and I would like to encourage everyone to go to the polls and cast their vote. Among others, for me.
Thank you very much, goodbye everyone, goodbye, Ms Kinga.
Goodbye.